Crunch Master/Blues Master (EL84)
Bass Master (EL84, no spk sim)
Cream Machine: ($120, ECC82 as power tube)
Metal Shredder/Metal Master (no power tube)
Hughes and Kettner make the Crunch Master, which is almost a power-tube saturation pedal. Instead of "fuzz", "overdrive", or "distortion", we could call this type of pedal a "power tube saturation" pedal, or a "saturation" pedal for short.
These were in production around 1988-1992. If you want them back in production, email H & K: info at Hughes-and-Kettner.com, as I have done (shown below). In addition, you can submit the request via the guestbook/design requests page. This page crunches all paragraphs together, at least when displaying the submitted information, so I included HTML tagging such as P and BR tags, so it's clear what formatting was intended.
Please write H&K to let them know that the market is now ready.
Please reissue the Crunch Master, with clearer marketing. The Crunch Master was essentially a mis-marketed Lexicon Signature 284. Once the 284 takes off explosively, you will see that you have every reason to reissue the Crunch Master -- but you need to market it in a way that is more readily understandable. There is a huge potential market for the Crunch Master: what guitarist would not want to obtain power-tube saturation quietly, at home? Previous efforts to market the Crunch Master failed because of lack of distinction, throughout the industry, between preamp tube distortion and power-tube saturation. Also, there was too much competition from other hopeful approaches (that didn't pan out) such as amp modelling, power attenuators used at extreme settings with high-power tube amps, and preamp tubes. The conditions are far better now for releasing a low-wattage power-tube product, as the success and widespread awareness of the Lexicon Signature 284 demonstrates.
My Amp Tone site and my conversations in the newsgroup, and my online discussion with people throughout the industry, are helping pave the way for the low-wattage power-tube revolution. Starting with the ADA MP1 and the Chandler Tube Driver, preamp tubes were added to all forms of guitar processors (pedals, rack processors, and amps) -- now that we've seen that these merely produce a *preamp* tube sound rather than "the tube sound" (meaning a cranked tube power-amp sound), the market is ready for a similar tube revolution, this time centered around low-wattage power tubes, rather than preamp tubes.
The 284, rather than the Crunch Master, is the product that is starting the low-wattage power-tube revolution, because it is marketed in a familiar way, as a "guitar recording tube amp", whereas the Crunch Master was marketed merely as a "guitar preamp" -- a fatal mistake. That's why the start of the low-wattage power-tube revolution is marked by the 284 rather than the proper deserving product, the Crunch Master. The two products are nearly identical in terms of features and capabilities.
The Crunch Master is perhaps my favorite low-wattage power-tube product (though lately I favor the Studio 0-10 watt rackmount tube amp with Power Scaling). All such products are covered at Amptone.com -- Amp Tone and Effects Placement, coverage of all products and techniques for quiet cranked-tube-amp tone
The Crunch Master has a great, complete feature set and provides actual cranked tube power-amp tone, for classic amp-breakup tone at reasonable levels.
Several people who have read my site concluded that the Crunch Master was the best-conceived, most interesting product for quiet cranked-amp tone, and have gone out of their way to obtain one. Below is an email exchange that prompted me to write you.
Douglas & Laurie wrote:
>Do you know of any reviews online for H&K's Blues Machine. Harmony Central doesn't have any. I just bought one, but I don't want to put any reviews up yet because I haven't messed with it enough. Have enjoyed it so far, but will see what happens. I'm going to be using it alone - straight to the board tomorrow. Don't have a home studio to mess around with so I'm going to use it live.
I believe you mean "Blues Master", a.k.a. "Crunch Master" -- isn't "Blues Master" printed on the casing as the model name?
Please do post a review at Harmony Central! I would like to know how it does in the following chain:
Full-featured separate preamp
Blues Master, emphasizing tube power-amp stage saturation
Good guitar-speaker cabinet (rather than built-in dummy load & cab-sim filter)
Post-amp time effects
Full-range monitor speakers/headphones
Does it have great quasi-Clean sounds, at 5% power-stage saturation?
Does it have great edge-of-power-tube-breakup tone, at 15% power-stage saturation?
Does it have great full-bore power-tube breakup, at 50% power-stage saturation?
Try various EQ curves before it (and at the mixer), including bass cut before the tube power-amp stage.
I hope that you test the Blues Master in these ways before posting a review at Harmony Central. Also, I believe Harmony Central should label this review thread as "Crunch Master / Blues Master".
The question of whether or not a product is rereleased hinges on a number of factors. One of them is prospective profitability. It's not profitable to gear up production of a product if you can't sell a certain number of them, let's say 1,000. If, in the meantime, you can create and produce a new product with likely sales of 5,000 or more, your costs or lower, so the odds are that you can be more profitable and continue to provide jobs for the people who make the products.
Whether enough Blues Masters (or 'Crunch Masters' as they were originally called) could be sold to justify the retooling and marketing expense is debatable. There may be strong interest in a product from, say, 100 people or so you know personally, but unfortunately that doesn't translate to guaranteed sales of any more than a hundred pieces or so.
I'd be curious to know how many 284s have been sold in stores thus far. They're certainly interesting pieces, but I would guess that 1,000 pieces is very optimistic at this stage of the game.
If you know where we could drum up interest in 1,000 pieces of the Blues/Crunch Master at $399 retail, let me know.
email: ll at oceanbridge.com
Hughes & Kettner USA
Cream Machine: Price Paid: US $120, $150, $85
The Crunch Master certainly has the most features, but the Bass master *might* be able to produce more power tube saturation with less preamp distortion. I am interested in the Clean channel of conventional amps, because I like to have explicit, full control of the amount of preamp distortion and the amount of power-stage saturation. One could also mod the Crunch Master to create a separate Clean channel that is able to do extreme power-tube saturation with no preamp distortion. This way, you would get the preamp distortion and spk sim capabilities of the "guitar" unit, with the saturated-"clean" potential of the "bass" unit.
�250 list. �100 used. Perhaps $100 used, typically?
Official .pdf-format manual for these products, from the H&K server.
H&K manuals page
How to get an ace guitar sound onto tape without a 100W stack - Tony Goodall [new updated URL] - includes tone sample audio files.
Although many people think that a "real" guitar sound cannot be recorded by any other technique than placing a microphone in front of a guitar amp, there is a way! As most guitarists know, a lot of the guitar's sound comes from the amp/speaker combination. Much rack equipment seeks to emulate the amp/speaker, some even including and ECC83 valve to get a "real" sound. In my experience, they all fail, because they are not addressing the real problem.
The Hughes and kettner rack-mount units I use are guitar amplifiers, built in miniature. They contain 2 valves each, with pre-amp and output-amp valve stages. They even have real output transformers, to load the output valves correctly, and then a large wire-wound ballast resistor, if the speaker output is not used. They have many outputs: Speaker, line-level Clean, line-level "Valved", line-level valved+speaker simulation. If you output them into a 4x12, you get a low-power guitar amp, I've jammed with one vs. a Fender 50W (turned down!). The line-level output, with speaker simulation is the normally used output.
[He says you need a power tube and output transformer, not just a preamp tube. However, the consensus so far is, you also actually need a hard-driven guitar speaker communicating directly with the power tube, to get a full pro-studio tone. Fortunately, these do have a speaker output as an alternative to the load-and-filter. So you can mic a guitar speaker, playing at 1 tube watt, and send the signal for post-amp processing (EQ, compressor, time effects) -- Michael]
Boss NS50 Noise Gate: Since the Hughes & Kettner saturation units are valve-based, they are noisy. I use a Boss NS50 noise-gate. The Guitar goes into the NS50 "key" input, then back out to the Hughes & Kettner, then back to the signal "in", then out, with noise reduction. By using the "raw" guitar signal for "keying" the noise gate, the dynamics of playing are kept intact.
Alesis Microverb 3: On a budget, you can get away with just the noise gate, and a good cheap digital reverb, to use along with the Hughes & Kettner saturation units. I used the Microverb 3 (I got it for �100 second-hand) for the samples here. All of the samples here were recorded with the neck pickup on a strat.
Crunch Master aka "Blues Master" (EL84, load, spk sim) - Contains an ECC83 and an EL84, run to give crunch, with speaker simulation built-in. 3 eq bands. [mid *might* be before preamp distortion] A great box. I am looking for a second one, for backup. The sounds range from clean-ish bluesy to dirty-sounding solo-blues, with output-stage-valve soft-clipping. The sounds remind me of Eric Clapton (1989), and B.B. King.
Bass Master (EL84, load, no spk sim [tone ctrls?]) - Contains an ECC83, and an EL84, clean sounds with no speaker simulator. I bought the Bass Master as an experiment. Although not sold or marketed as a guitarist's unit, I thought it must be like the Fender Bassman amp. [compare the SWR Interstellar Overdrive and Warwick Quadruplet - both bass preamps with an EL84, and load I presume, used strictly as a tone generator, probably with no speaker simulator - Michael] It has nice glassy clean sounds, and really "warm-valves" up a sound if you use it on a cleanish patch on a multi-fx, as an insert, it makes the difference between a practice-quality sound and a finished-recording studio-sound. [only has 1 tone knob - is this before or after preamp distortion if any?]
Cream Machine (ECC82 "power" tube [load? spk sim?]) - The Cream Machine contains an ECC83, and an ECC82 run as a 1W power amp valve. The lowest distortion on this unit is still firmly in Jimi-Hendrix territory. You will need the noise gate for this one. For most guitarists, this would be a "stunt-guitar" unit, only for occasional use. [no eq knobs] [but surely, using the EQ--power-tube--EQ sequence, you can have total control over the amount and voicing of the power-tube saturation?! emailed Tony Goodall
Metal Shredder aka "Metal Master" (no power tube or load; has spk sim) - The Metal Master has no output valve, but it uses two ECC83s (one for tone I think) to get a great rock sound that beats most semi-pro combos (speaker simulation built-in). Used with delay and reverb, most rock sounds can be achieved. [3 eq bands, mid is before preamp distortion]
I use the 4 Hughes & Kettner units, through a TOA rack-mount mixer, as an insert loop on a Yamaha FX770. This gives the best of both worlds. Digital FX can be patched in, as and when. Only problem at present is I have to dial in which Hughes & Kettner unit I want manually with the mixer each time I am changing sound. I could do with 4 FX loops on the FX770!
You wrote: "The Cream Machine contains an ECC83, and an ECC82 run as a 1W power amp valve. The lowest distortion on this unit is still firmly in Jimi-Hendrix territory. You will need the noise gate for this one. For most guitarists, this would be a stunt-guitar unit, only for occasional use."
But surely, using the EQ--power-tube--EQ sequence, you can have total control over the amount and voicing of the power-tube saturation? I hope the noise levels etc. would permit this approach to get great tone, with reasonable signal/noise ratio, around the edge-of-power-tube-saturation point. Using this approach, you should be able to have any degree of power-tube saturation, right?
o Completely clean power tube sound
o Pregnant, warm power tube sound just before saturation
o Subtle power tube saturation
o Moderate power tube saturation
o Full power tube saturation.
You wrote: "The Blues Master is a later product - I have the Cream Machine, the Bass Master, the Metal Master, and the Crunch Master, all half-rack. They aren't fizzy, I think they have more of an amp inside them compared to the Blues Master (which has one ECC83, I think)."
Isn't the Blues Master just the European name for the Crunch Master? And therefore uses an EL84?
Thank you very much for the info on these important products.
Why were they discontinued? Were they too good, threatening the more expensive Hughes & Kettner products and profits?
What are the chances of them being reissued, when people understand how signficant they are, that they were ahead of their time, when people realize that preamp tubes are nothing, compared to power tubes?
Tony Goodall's Musicians page includes strat rewiring tips for better sound
Manual for Cream Machine and Blues Master (aka "Crunch Master") - Manual -- Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine and Blues Master (aka "Crunch Master")
Unofficial Hughes & Kettner Home Page, dedicated to Hughes & Kettner guitar amplifiers.
Schematic for Crunch Master
Schematic for Cream Machine
Crunch Master controls and features:
Andrew Wallace wrote:
>Actually, the Blues Master, like its brothers the Cream Machine and (I think)
>Metal Shredder use a power tube - a 6L6 or 6V6, can't remember which.
[maybe - see Tony Goodall's specs, above.]
>I don't know
>about the power transformer, but I would guess that there is a small one. The
>power amp out section of these little boxes will drive an external speaker - I
>had a cream machine hooked up to a 4X12 slant cabinet once, and it sounded pretty
>good. It's just one tube, so that's like somewhere between 3 and 6 watts. The
>only reason I got rid of my Cream Machine was that it had no tone controls - just
>gain and level, really. I wanted a little more versatility in the sound. The
>Blues/Crunch Master and Metal Shredder have tone controls as well.
>They also include a speaker emulator to stick in after the power stage. All in all,
>a pretty satisfying sound.
>Andy Wallace If my employer wanted to say this stuff,
>Palo Alto, CA they would, with no help from me.
>e-mail: andyw at informix.com
>web: the SCROOMtimes!!! www.scroom.com/SCROOMtimes
> Linux - Genetic Mandate, or Lifestyle Choice?
Great! Thanks for the info. I really might get this unit. It sounds the closest to what I need -- a small rack "effect". I could get a 5-watt combo amp too, but my main system I'm designing uses a rack-mount approach. Here is the system I'm most interested in lately:
Digitech 2112 multieffects processor (for distortion)
Hughes & Kettner Blues Master (power tubes. Use the speaker-out jack, no simulator)
Directly drive the Micro Room mini speaker isolation cabinet with 6" speaker -- bypass the power attenuator
Shure SM57 dynamic mic or a condenser mic
Digitech 2101 multieffects processor (for eq, level, echo, reverb after mic'd speaker)
Rack-mount solid state amp
100 watt full-range monitor
Basically I'm sticking the Blues Master amp and speaker isolation cab in the middle of a multieffects processor -- literally sticking a cranked tube amp and speaker into the effects loop of the Digitech 2101.
I don't quite trust the Ampulator... it's too expensive, uses a preamp tube as a power tube, and has a gee-whiz array of switches of dubious value. The Blues Master is an *extremely* well-conceived product, from the reports I've read.
>I'm in the market for my first real amp and stumbled across your Amp Tone site. I think I've read everything on there three times so far, because what you're proposing is exactly what I was looking for. I was thinking I may have been a bit weird for not caring for ear-splitting volume, but from the responses I've read, it seems I'm not alone.
>I was particularly interested in the Hughes & Kettner Blues Master item which led me to Hughes & Kettner's site, where I found information about their new Tube 20 combo.
>This amp features something they call Direct Power Amp Control which according to them allows one to overload the power amp at room levels. Having read your various notes on this subject I know that you mention driving the speaker hard as 1/3 of the Tone picture and I'm guessing this doesn't do that, but are you familiar with this product?
[Keep an eye out for preamps that actually use a 12AX7 in a power-tube-and-load configuration. And keep an eye out for amps such as the Warwick IV and IX "bass amps", which use an EL84 as merely a tone generator, together with a high-wattage solid-state power amp.]
I haven't read about it yet. Driving the speaker hard is a solid, substantial 1/3 of that which makes genuine cranked-tube-amp tone; these factors include:
o Saturated power tubes
o Hard-driven guitar speaker
o Good mic'ing technique
o Power tubes and guitar speaker are directly interfaced via output transformer, with no attenuator interfering with the intercommunication of the power tubes and guitar speakers
o Multiple guitar speakers and multiple mic's
o Availability of post-processing after the mic's -- including tone knobs on each mixer channel (one per mic; see Stevie Ray Vaughn article/photo in the Guitar Player special issue about Tone [see my Books page]) and reverb, and other time-based effects.
Are speakers essential for cranked-amp tone?
Tony goodall wrote:
>>Doesn't the Blues Master sound fizzy when you use the speaker
>The Blues Master is a later product - I have the Cream Machine, and the Bass, Metal and Crunch Masters, all half-rack. They aren't fizzy. I think they have more of an amp inside them compared to the Blues-Master (which has one ECC83, I think [hm, I thought his page said the Blues Master is the Crunch Master). My MPG files sound fizzier than my original recordings.
>> Isn't pushing the speakers hard an essential part of cranked-amp tone?
>Desirable, I think, but not as essential as the valves, especially output valves.
>>If so, then a speaker isolation cabinet would be the only way of getting cranked amp tone at very low room noise levels. You could directly drive the 6" speaker in the Micro Room cabinet with the 5 watts or so put out by the speaker out jack of the Blues Master.
>Using an actual guitar speaker, driven hard, would be a nice extra, but the DI from my units is very convincing, although for feel (as opposed to recorded sound), a real amp wins every time!!
>>The Blues Master seems like a well-conceived and (unfortunately) unusual unit. I hear that it's been discontinued. I think that guitarists need to simply clamor for low-wattage power tube products, and manufacturers will produce them. We need to build up a momentum of awareness about such combinations of components.
Harmony Central: Cream Machine reviews - though this unit has no tone controls and just uses an ECC82 preamp tube as a power tube rather than an EL84 like the Crunch Master, check out these highly positive reviews. Consistently gets Sound Quality and Overall Rating of "10". Excerpts:
Several output options - best is the 412 cabinet simulator but nice to have all the others. This is a one man dog, as it were, but it really bites well. The tonal range is more than one might 1st assume, though. This thing was apparently designed to get the sound of a 1968 50 watt Plexi thru a 412 cabinet - they absolutely nailed it. Sounds good with a LesPaul and humbuckers (very smooth - maybe this where the "Cream" name came from) and just about what one would expect with a Strat. Uses a 12at7 and a 12ax7. Good telephone support. I have Fender, Marshall and Vox amps. They are a pain in the ass to record with. These little single tone oriented processing boxes are a Godsend. I love this one. I would buy it again and wish I had been turned on to it earlier. Very straightforward. Entire schematic is printed on the outside of the metal case describing, in very simple graphic terms, what to plug in where. It is very simple to use ... three knobs and two switches, 8 1/4" phone plug jacks. The knobs are: master (controls the overall output volume), gain (the amount of overdrive into the "tube amp" section), and, on the back, a knob called "tube amp" (which, in concert with the other two can sweeten the sound a bit. My typical "rig" consists of guitar to the Cream Machine to a Boss PSM-5 to (effects loop) Boss DD-5 Digital Delay to a Boss CH-1 SuperChorus to a soundtable or to my Peavey Classic practice amp. If I go to the mixing board, I use the cabinet emulator out output to a direct box to the table. If I'm on my amp at home, I go with the "mix out" into the normal channel of my Peavey. On either the emulator or mix out ports, the footswitch engages or disengages the overdrive of the Cream Machine. I play for our church services (very contemporary Christian and Christian rock music), so I was looking for a preamp to bring color to the guitar rather than the ultra-clean sound of going direct into the table from the guitar and effects rig. The Cream Machine did everything I had hoped. It can drive a heavy distorted l ead, a mellow overdriven sound or a miked cabinet clean sound. Even at very low volume levels, with the gain set high I can get the feedback squeals and rich harmonics normally requiring very loud amplifier outputs. At high gain levels, though, it is very sensitive to sound from the guitar; even a slight brush against the strings will produce an overdriven growl through the box. It lacks any tone controls so all that has to be done at the guitar, in the effects chain or at the mixing board (but that's where I prefer to do it anyway). This box was the answer to my prayers to get a high quality, professional preamp without the need to mike an amplifier. Its extremely small footprint (about the size of a hardcover novel) makes it absolutely great and the instrument in jack on both the front and the back of the box is a nice touch. I do use it without a backup. It is a solid piece of equipment, although I guess it could blow a tube eventually. I've never had any problems with it. I sent Hughes & Klettner an email letting them know how happy I was with my purchase and I received an almost immediate reply. I won't play without it, even if I'm using my own amp. Some of the musicians I play with who demand a miked amp have tried it and are very willing to use it instead. Well worth the purchase price. This is the infamous Hughes & Kettner All-Tube Cream Machine: Recording preamp, practive amp and DI box. Two Knobs: Pre gain and Master Level (Post Gain) This is not a versatile box. It is meant to sound like a heavily overdriven tube poweramp. Theres not a lot of sounds in this guy. Just varying amounts of saturation. You'll want to use an outboard EQ after it. It has very little low- end. As far as ease-of-use, it is simplicity defined. If you want a raging distortion generator, this unit is for you. It doesn't have channels, just a bypass. It can drive a 4x12 stack at practice volume (or most any other real-speaker load), but the lack of EQ may limit its usefulness in this capacity. Run it into an EQ and something li ke a Nanoverb then into your stereo for a nice little setup. Creates great tube sounding distortion. Going direct to a board or a stereo with an EQ, no problem. This is a nice little box if you're building up modules for rock music. It is not incredibly useful by itself unless you just want to play like you're plugging into a raging stack with no reverb. Run it through a little reverb and into your stereo and you have a happening little box. Absolutely raging.
user reviews of Blues Master
italian Crunch Master articles index
n. 31 (ott. '88), p. 71: Cream Machine, pre. ch., (prova)
n. 36 (mar. '89), p. 65: Crunch Master, pre. ch., (prova)
n. 39 (giu. '89), p. 80: Red Box : Cabinetulator G, unit� di connessione diretta a mixer, (prova)
n. 46 (gen. '90), p. 60: Metal Master, amp. ch., (notizia)
n. 48 (mar. '90), p. 78: Cream Machine, pre. ch., (articolo breve)
n. 48 (mar. '90), p. 78: Crunch Master, pre. ch., (articolo breve
n. 58 (gen. '91), p. 64: Metal Master, amp. ch., (prova)
n. 102, set. '94, p. 68: ped. pre. val. Tubeman, (prova)
n. 102, set. '94, p. 70: pre. val. Tubeman Plus, (prova)
DejaNews query: "bass master" and hughes (included bass ng's) [no real hits yet, except goodall]
DejaNews query: ["Crunch Master" or crunchmaster]
Messages 1-36 of exactly 36 matches for search "Crunch Master" crunchmaster:
Date Scr Subject Newsgroup Author 1. 98/10/15 042 Re: Q: which guitar preamp f alt.guitar Michael 2. 98/10/15 040 Re: Q: which guitar preamp f alt.guitar Michael 3. 98/06/10 037 Re: OVERDRIVE/DISTORTION PED alt.guitar.amps Puentstein 4. 98/07/16 035 Re: Fender Sound #3/5 alt.guitar.amps Steve 5. 98/06/24 034 Re: If $ were no object--Wha alt.guitar.amps Puentstein 6. 98/02/06 033 Re: More tubes, more gai#2/2 alt.guitar Steve 7. 98/04/02 032 Re: Rivera R55-112 vs Ra#1/2 alt.guitar.amps Steve 8. 96/11/09 031 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps M. Diewald 9. 96/10/27 031 FS: H&K Cream Machine and Bl alt.guitar RK Lartius 10. 98/02/26 030 Re: Favorite small/practice alt.guitar.amps Bill Young 11. 97/04/15 029 Preamp Tone/Master V's #1/2 alt.guitar.amps Steve 12. 96/11/03 029 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps Michael 13. 96/01/24 029 Re: Sick of solid-state dist rec.music.makers.guit tony goodall 14. 96/01/06 029 Re: Sick of solid-state dist alt.guitar tony goodall 15. 95/10/23 029 UPDATE: FS: H&K's CREAM MACH rec.music.makers.mark Mauricio Gobbi 16. 95/10/20 029 FS: H&K's CREAM MACHINE and rec.music.makers.mark Mauricio Gobbi 17. 96/10/31 028 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps Andrew Wallace 18. 96/10/28 028 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps Mark Amundson 19. 96/10/19 028 Re: Direct-to-console sh#1/2 alt.guitar Michael 20. 96/06/13 028 Re: Whats your rig??? Heres rec.music.makers.guit M. Diewald 21. 97/09/08 027 ###275 Rare Vintage Effe#4/5 rec.music.makers.mark Romain BIDAUT 22. 96/12/29 027 New site: Amp tone, spk iso alt.guitar Michael 23. 96/10/31 027 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps Michael 24. 96/10/30 027 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps harry kolbe sou 25. 96/10/28 027 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, Hot alt.guitar.amps Greg Jones 26. 96/10/26 027 Rvw of Power Brake, Hot Plat alt.guitar.amps Michael 27. 96/10/16 027 Re: 7 Approaches to Quie#1/2 alt.guitar.amps Michael 28. 96/10/16 027 Re: Low-watt power tubes: ne alt.guitar.amps Michael 29. 96/11/02 026 Re: List of small tube a#1/2 alt.guitar.amps robertb 30. 96/10/31 026 Re: Rvw of Power Brake, #1/2 alt.guitar.amps Michael 31. 97/09/08 025 ###275 Rare Vintage Effe#3/5 rec.music.makers.mark Romain BIDAUT 32. 96/10/26 025 New 2112 guitar effects #2/2 alt.music.rush Michael 33. 96/11/02 024 List of small tube amps for alt.guitar.amps Michael 34. 97/12/31 016 very low powered amps with d alt.guitar.amps Puentstein 35. 97/01/04 014 Re: H&K or SansAmp??? alt.guitar.amps Gino Iorfida 36. 97/01/03 014 H&K or SansAmp??? alt.guitar.amps ribcage
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